The following postings are a transcript of students' responses to our unit on psychological theories of the self, in which we studied Freudian and Jungian psychology and also the literature of Rilke as an applied example of various aspects of these theories, particularly of Jungian psychology. Student postings have not been edited in any way.
The assignment:
Article No. 234: posted by Deborah Vess on Mon, Apr. 24, 2000, 14:25 Subject: Assignment
Please assume the persona of either Freud or Jung and analyze the personality and psyche of Rilke as seen in the journals.
Student postings:
Article No. 235: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 8 on Wed, Apr. 26, 2000, 19:28 Subject: re: Assignment
In Rilke's article, "Hands: A Childhood Experience", he repeats reaching for the red again. Being a Fruedian, I suspect that his ID is trying to break through from his ego. He has repressed his ID too much. His sexual descriptions of the floor he lay on seem to infer to me that he had an abusive childhood. Also, Rilke's second article, "Costumes: A Child Game of Impersonation", gives me the indication that as a child Rilke may have been sexually abused. The way he speaks of his hand may be a reflection of his memories of the abusive hand from his childhood. The way he gets excited throughout the article also seems to be a reference to a bad childhood. His ID, Ego, and Superego are not in check. Of course, this is only my guess after reading two of his articles. I will need to speak with Rilke myself to perform an accurate evaluation.
Article No. 236: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 13 on Wed, Apr. 26, 2000, 23:23 Subject: re: Assignment
In Rilke's article, "Faces", it seems as if he is an introvert trying to become an extrovert. He takes everything in and thinks about things but doesn't really act on them. He hides his feelings and keeps them tucked away. This is evident in "Faces" because he talks about these people but never talks to them. His introversion also shows in "Hands: A Childhood Experience" because he talks about being alone and being scared. Still, he doesn't talk.
Article No. 237: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 13 on Wed, Apr. 26, 2000, 23:38 Subject: re: Assignment
In Rilke's articles, he reflects the thinkings of Jung. Jung believed that people are either extroverts or introverts. In the article Faces, Rilke shows a woman who is an introvert. She felt that because she was poor, she could not reach out to others and get to know them. She was an introvert wanting to be an extrovert. Rilke watches as she removes her face. He notes that he wishes that she would have kept on her faces instead of revealing the "naked flayed head". I feel that Rilke was expressing that the woman should have just tried to be her self and accept who she is.
Article No. 238: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 24 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 00:03 Subject: re: Assignment
Dr. Vess, I accidently posted my posting under Erin Tedford #237. Here is my posting again: In Rilke's articles, he reflects the thinkings of Jung. Jung believed that people are either extroverts or introverts. In the article "Faces", Rilke shows a woman who is an introvert. She felt that because she was poor, she could not reach out to other and get to know them. She was an introvert wanting to be an extrovert. Rilke watches as she removes her face. He notes that he wishes that she would have kept on her faces instead of revealling the "naked flayed head". I feel that Rilke was expressing that the woman should have just tried to be her self and accept who she is.
Article No. 242: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 3 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 09:48 Subject: re: Assignment
I would be Frued. It seems to me that Rilke is trying to repress his true feelings in the articles. Faces he tries to not notice the truth until he is faced with the reality of what the lady looks like on the inside. His ego is in the middle of trying not to have to see the woman without her face. Once he sees her without the face, his superego comes out and he feels guilty and scared. In "Hands", it seems Rilke is also dealing with the id, ego, and superego. He seems once again to want to repress the ideas, and his regression is shown by sitting up in the armchair with his teeth chattering. His positive thoughts about how he is superior over hands is put into action, even though he is scared.
Article No. 244: [Branch from no. 242] posted by student 30 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 10:20 Subject: re: Assignment
In the first journal I think that ego is represented there because the child has to balance all this new stuff he or she is recieving. The child finds ways to deal with loosing the crayon, getting down, and the light. The task is accomplished. The ego which Freud introduces is that the child dealt with the new and challenging tasks. In the second journal I think that ID is represented because the child is like a preditor watching it's prey, it is watching all the costumes and seeing what it likes and doesn't like. Rilke mentions, "so slithery that one could scarcely take hold of them". I think that shows the urge to touch, feel, and know what is before the child's eyes. The object is bazarre, but the child is not afraid. Carl Junge's persona is seen in the second journal because of the child telling the people at the end. The child wanted to share to the outside, an extrovert. The child knew what it had done.
Article No. 245: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 31 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 10:41 Subject: re: Assignment
Rilke is definitely in conflict with his id and superego. His ego is not keeping him in balance. In "Costumes" the subject gets "bolder and bolder." This demonstrates that the superego has been suppressing the id. The id is released when a costume is worn. The subject feels more powerful and daring.
Article No. 254: [Branch from no. 245] posted by student 25 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 13:31 Subject: re: Assignment
I think Rilke is definitely in a battle of conflict with the ID and superego of his personality. Since I believe somewhat in Fruedian psychology, I believe that his ID is trying to break through and express itself freely and openly. In reading his articals, I almost feel like Rilke's ID is subconsciencely trying to express to someone that he may have been sexually abused. It also apears that his ID, Ego, and SuperEgo are in constant battle with each other, by the way he represses things, and at the same time, they seem to want to come out in his writing. He obviously has some inner struggle with hands and in his childhood. He could have been suppressing these feelings until now. I would diffinatly recommend that he should come to my office, at least three times a week so I could further examine his most inner thoughts for a full analysis. ( If I was a psychologist of course!)
Article No. 252: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 2 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 13:24 Subject: re: Assignment
In the articles by Rilke, he reflects more on the teachings of Jung. In Jung's beliefs, people are either introverts or extroverts. In the article, "Faces" the poor woman is an introvert trying to become an extrovert. She wants to become socially excepted in society. She dwells on the fact that she is poor, therefore, she hides her real face from others, but when she takes her face off, the real individual is seen. From Jung's point of view, you should not hide the real you. You should be yourself and not try to hide from reality.
Article No. 253: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 7 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 13:30 Subject: re: Assignment
In the journals of Rilke, I believe that the ideas mostly compare to the thoughts of Jung. Jung assumes that there are only two sides to an individuals personality, the introvert and the extrovert. I believe that both Rilke and the older lady are introverts. Though, it seems as though the poor, older lady wanted to be an extrovert. She removes her face to show everyone who she was or who she was wanting to be. When she does this, Rilke looks away because he did not want to see her true face. If he looked at her and saw the "flayed head" he would have to see who she really was. He was scared to do this because he, too, is an introvert. In the journal "Hands: A Childhood Experience" Rilke again seems like an introvert. Jung says that introverts think before they speak unlike an extrovert. I believe that the character in this journal was thinking too much about getting out of the chair to get a crayon from the floor. This action would make him an introvert. He also seems as if he has obsession with hands, which Im sure has its own story there.
Article No. 266: [Branch from no. 253] posted by student 33 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 22:39 Subject: re: Assignment
When examining the article of "Hands: A Childhood Experience" I can see the repression mentioned by Freud. This child in this article seems to be overwhelmed and afraid of anything outside of his own world. The reference to a Mademoiselle suggests that as a child it was suggested that he is inferior to someone, mainly this Mademoiselle. When he sees her hand coming under the table to help him search for his crayon, he is terrified. He was so taken with the idea of his hand independently searching for this crayon, that when his thought is broken it terrifies him. He is reminded, through the size of the hand, and the constant searching of the hand, that he is inferior. This makes him retreat back to a chair and watch in terror as this hand continued its search.
Article No. 255: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 10 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 14:55 Subject: re: Assignment
It seems to me Rilke has not yet got his personality in sync. Different parts of his personality are battling each other wanting to express themselves. This seems to mostly be between his Id and superego. At this time I believe his superego is in temporary control. i say this because it looks as if he has mastered supressing his feelings. However his Id is struggling to free itself coming close in these writings. I get the strong feeling Rilke at one time was possibly sexually abused igniting these strong Id characteristics. This would also explain how Rilke has become so good at supressing his feelings, for who would want to remember something like that? Whatever the situation is, it's definate that Rilke has some personality conflicts.
Article No. 256: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 21 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 16:28 Subject: re: Assignment
In Rilke's articles, I think he reflects more on the teachings of Jung. Jung believed that people are either introverts or extroverts. For example, in the article, "Faces" the poor woman is an introvert trying to become an extrovert. The woman is wanting to become socially excepted in society. She is concerned with the fact that she is poor, and therefore hides her real face from others, but when she takes her face off, the real individual is seen. This is contrary to what Jung would say, because he feels that you should not try to hide the real you. You should be yourself and not try to hide from the real world, or you should not try to hide yourself from reality. Jung also believes that a person is responsible for making his or her own ego. The part of the three "sences" of your personality (the others being the id and superego) that tries to be the 'safety condcutor' of the devil and the moral side of you.
Article No. 263: [Branch from no. 256] posted by student 5 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 21:14 Subject: re: Assignment
Freud agrees that the mind can be divided into three components: the Id, the super ego, and the ego. The Id is the side of your mind that is responsibe for a person's wild and animalistic behaviors. The super ego is the moral side that tells you to always do what is right, and the ego is in the center that acts like the executive. The ego is the central unit and decides what ultimately happens. In "Hands: A Childhood Experience" a story is told about a child who looks under a dark table to find a red crayon that he dropped. As the boy combs the carpet with his hand he notices another hand in front of him doing the same hand motions. When the boy sees the hand he sits back in his chair and is suddenly overcome with extreme fright. From Freud's point of view, I feel the boy is suffering from a serious case of repression. I sense that maybe the boy has faced some hard times as a child and instead of dealing with these bad memories and getting over them, he pushes them deep inside of himself where they eventually "eat away" at him. Repression is very unhealthy and can result in some very bad consequences. I feel the boy thinks he sees a hand only because of all the built up emotions he has stored inside. The boy has a very hard time in deciding whether to listen to his Id or to his super ego. This causes the boy to repress everything and to move on with his life forgetting things for an instant that will soon come back to haunt him.
Article No. 258: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 28 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 16:36 Subject: re: Assignment
I believe more in the Fruedian psychology some what more than Jungs. Since Rilke is constantly haveing a battle with his ID and his superego of his personality, i think that his ID is making more of an effort to break though and be seen more. In fact his ID, ego, and superego battle each other very often, which is shown the way his writings reflect them, but he also represses things a lot. Many feelings he trys to show in his writing but at the same time he is hiding those deep inner feelings.
Article No. 261: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 6 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 18:29 Subject: re: Assignment
I am going to assume the role of Jung. Taking the article titled "Faces," the woman from this article is a trapped introvert. She hides behind her real feelings and emotions and tries to be socially accepted. She wants to achieve social acceptance so bad that she does not act as herself , but rather as someone who she believes society wants her to be. As Jung, I would say to show the world your real self, they will appreciate it more in the long run. You must establish your own ego and go with it. Never act as you believe others want you to act, just have your own arrogance and prosper with that ego. This woman is a trapped introvert who wants to become a extrovert, but can not achieve this feat because she hides her real self and because she does not establish an ego for herself.
Article No. 262: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 15 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 19:15 Subject: re: Assignment
I think that Rilke's woman in the story is an expression of himself. He is trying to say, according to Jung, that he is struggling to find out which parts of himself are really him and which parts are his "faces" (or false personnas). He is trying to develope his ego and he can not truely do that until he begins to find confidence in himself and who he is. In Hands I am sensing the same thing: he is not certain of who he is. He is trying to use the way that he relates to his cicumstances and how people relate to him to better understand
Article No. 264: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 23 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 21:23 Subject: re: Assignment
In the story of faces Rilkes explains how people have many different faces. Using Jung's mind to analyze the story I find that Rilke used extraversion to express introversian, let me explain. He described that people have many different faces and that some people wear them out to fast and have to change over and over again. The faces are a form of extraversion, since the face is on the outside of the body, for everyone to see. The extraverted face also shows how the person is expressing themselves introvertly. The person on the inside thinks that they need to change their face and does it. The woman that was startled and left her face in her hands proves this point. If she would have not been startled she would have looked up slowly with a different face, but she didn't have time to change her face, what he saw was her introvert self.
Article No. 265: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 20 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 22:21 Subject: re: Assignment
In Rilkes journals, he assumes the role more like Jung. Jung believes that a person should develope their own ego. He believed a person's ego should be balanced with good and bad. Jung also believed people are either extroverts, in which they express their thoughts and feelings outward, while introverts, take in the world and then decide how to think. In the journal "Faces", the poor woman demonstrates an introvert. She hates to be poor, so she wears faces to hide how she really is and what she wants to be. But, at the end she tries to become an extrovert as she removes her face to show her real personality. Rilke also demonstrates an introvert in "Hands: A Childhood Experience". He doesn't use his mind to think, he uses his imagination as he believes there is a hand reaching for him. The imagination frightens him because he sees the hand and his mind makes him believe the hand is really there.
Article No. 268: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 29 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 23:26 Subject: re: Assignment
The thoughts of Jung are represented well in Rilke's articles. He expresses the personality of an introvert in both of the articles "Faces" and "Hands: A hildhood Experience." In "Faces" Rilke's tells of a poor elderly woman who is extremely unsatisfied with herself. The woman is an introvert who has a burning desire to be an extrovert. She hides away from the world behind a mask, which completely opposes the thoughts of Jung. This hiding is an action done by an introvert, one who takes in the world and does not speak out loud. Jung believes that the woman should accept who she is and be happy instead of trying to fit into society. The woman's attempt to become an extrovert comes at the end of the story when she removes her mask and exposes her true inside. Rilke's also exemplifies intoversion in his article "Hands: A Childhood Experience." He contemplates getting out of the chair to get the crayon but never actually moves to retrieve it. This is definately an action done by an introvert because had it been an extovert, he would not have thought twice about getting out of the chair he would have just moved. The main lesson is to accept who you are, whether it be an extrovert or introvert, and be happy.
Article No. 270: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 26 on Sat, Apr. 29, 2000, 17:27 Subject: re: Assignment
In Rilkes "Faces," he expresses the thoughts of Jung. The older woman in the story is poor and doesn't like who her true self is. She is an intorvert and hides her face from others. She wants to be an extrovert and show her real face to the world, and be happy with who she is. Jung belives that there are two types of people, introverts and extroverts and no matter what type of person you are, you should accept it and be happy.
Article No. 273: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 18 on Mon, May. 1, 2000, 16:24 Subject: re: Assignment
The stroy faces has to do with a poor woman who "takes off her face" and freud does not want to look at her. This is because he does not want to get to know her w\he would rather just pass on by. I believe there is also a touch of insecurity there by Frued becasue he is worried if he would like what he sees. Today's society has this "insecurity" people do not worry about getting to know other people to good because they are scared they might like what the hear or in Frueds case see.
Article No. 293: [Branch from no. 234] posted by student 39 on Tue, May. 2, 2000, 07:27 Subject: re: Assignment
I believe that Rilke is best described by Carl Jung's teachings. He taught that everyone was either an introvert or an extrovert. In "Faces," an old woman is an introvert. She figured that because she was poor, she could not be in touch with others. She wants to be an extrovert, but fears getting there. I think Rilke put some of himself into this article, showing that he too has more than one face.
Article No. 241: posted by student 1 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 08:55 Subject: Assignment
It is very apparant that Rilke is an introvert from the "Hands: A Childhood Experience" article. He relies on his senses instead of the truth. If this was not the case, then he wouldn't have let his mind believe there was a hand reaching for him, or he wouldn't have gotten so frightened at the image. He obviously has some inner struggles he has pushed aside for years that are now beginning to surface. He does not have total unity in himself and that is making him unstable and unequal. Also, in the "Faces" artcle, Rilke does not rely on the fact that a person smiles when they are happy. Instead, he feels that if a person smiles too much, they are wearing out their face and are not being sincere. Even in the first line, he admits that he is "learning to see", that shows he is still trying to see reality, and just what he wants or feels that he sees.
Article No. 246: posted by student 34 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 10:57 Subject: Jung Teachings
I think the poem by Rilke is closely related to the teachings of Jung. Jung teaches thought people developed their own ego, he believed in wholeness and the thouhts of extroversion and interversion. I think the poem is a women who has not quite completed her ego and is an interversion. She is poor and wants to switch places and faces with someone, so that she could feel good about herself and become extroversion. Once she reaches wholeness, then everything will be on her side and Christ is the ultimate example of your wholeness.
Article No. 249: posted by student 36 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 12:50 Subject: assignment
In his stories, I beleive that Rilke reflects the teachings of Jung. Jung beleived in introvert and extrovert personalities. He also thought that each individual creates his/her own ego. In Rilke's "Faces" is a woman who is an introvert yerning to be extrovert. She is poor and wishing she could be "normal" and social with others. The woman removes her face. I do not think that this was necessary because like Jung beleives, everyone should make the best of themselves. The lady should stop yerning and just be.
Article No. 257: posted by student 17 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 16:34 Subject: Frued, Jung, and Rilke
In the section titled "faces", I would say that the problem with the woman is that she is an introvert. I feel she is taking in no actions. She tries to hide and conseal the real her. She is alone and scared. She needs to accept who she is on the inside. In the section "Hands", I would say that there is a inner emotional problem. Possibly resulting from abuse. Changing colors frequenly and using mostly red is definetly a sign of a problem. Red is a violent color and looks like blood. Maybe he watched abuse or fights. Possibly his father abusing his mother. This is a problem and his ego needs to be balanced as Freud would say. In the section "Costumes" the person was fancied with the costumes and not any particular one, but many bright colors. The person liked the mask that sit tightly over the face and entirely hide the face. This person also struggles with the uncertianity of what drives him. Therefore had no ability to speak his mind because he was uncertian of it. This is internal emotional problems. There is always an internal war constantly going on within healthy humans, but this behavior is abnormal. The id,ego and superego need to work things out to rationalize and regress this problem.
Article No. 259: posted by student 14 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 16:55 Subject: Rilke þÿ
If I had to assume the persona of either Freud or Jung to do a analyze on the personality of Rilke I would choose Jung. Jung believes that people are either extrovert or introverts that are trying to become perfectly balanced. In an article from Rilkes journals it seems that in the article “Faces” speaks of an introverted woman trying desperately to become an extrovert, but she is holding herself back because she is poor. In the article “A Childhood Experience” I think the little child is a introvert because the child thinks before every action. Jung claims that is a sing of being a introvert because extroverts don’t think before they do they just do.
Article No. 260: posted by student 4 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 17:26 Subject: jung
Assuming the role of Jung, the self develops out of the ego. The self is balanced, complete, and whole. According to Rilkes article, "faces", there is a woman who has not completed the stages of her true self. As Rilke says "since they have several faces, what do they do with the others". This woman has only shown a couple of faces and has not displayed her true self. She should display herself through the natural intravert she is. This woman is portrayed as an intravert that wants to become an extravert. Jung tells us that your true self should be portrayed no matter what the case is. He also says your true self should develop out of your ego. Usually the intraverted person takes in their feelings and they only share them if they choose to. The extraverted personality will speak of their feelings out loud. This lady in the article is definitely a trapped inravert.
Article No. 267: posted by student 19 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 23:14 Subject: Frued and Rilke
As with many other cases I, Sigmund Frued, have carefully examined the personality and psyche of Rilke as seen in the journals. These different texts express his feelings and emotions, especially his obvious inner struggles and search for a true identity. In my teachings of the id, ego, and superego, I believe that he is all messed up inside. His id and ego are at war with each other. As in the article "Faces", he displays exactly what is goiing on within Rilke. A woman is seen with quite an identity crisis. She is naturally aloof and intorverted; however, she fails to accept the hand she was dealt and disguises her true self. She even tries to convert her whole personality to an extroverted, more outgoing type. It fails her miserably. I believe tht the self should fully develop in a natural way, out of the ego as it is the central commanding unit of the soul. She is not letting nature take its course. It seems as if past experiences are getting in the way of Rilke's mind also. Things are coming back to haunt him, and he should try to move on. As a firm believer that the self will blossom with the smooth workings of the id, ego, and superego, I prescribe that Rilke should take part in some behavior modification.
Article No. 269: posted by student 37 on Thu, Apr. 27, 2000, 23:34 Subject: Assignment
In Rilkes' journals he is most like Jung. In "Faces," the women are trapped introvert.The woman is poor and she doesn't want to accept it. She tries to hide her real self in the society around her. She tries to be what the society wants her to be. She does not have her own personality, because she wants to socially accepted. She does not have unity within herself because she does not believe in herself and what she really is. She need to establish self unity, equilibrium, and stability. Once she believes in herself she can achieve unity.
Article No. 271: posted by student 9 on Sun, Apr. 30, 2000, 22:48 Subject: Jung's Introvert
Rilke's journals reflect the teaching of Jung. Jung's introversion and extroversion are the basis of the self. Rilke is definitley an introvert. Instead of talking to the poor woman and trying to understand her faces and why she has the ones she has, he simply avoids looking. It's almost as if he wants to see but can't bring himself to be an extrovert and look. The poor woman is also an introvert. She wants to reach out and shed the face that everyone sees as poor,homeless, and dirty, but she doesn't know how. She does not reverse her role to that of an extrovert and neither does Rilke. They both accomplish nothing by watching instead of acting.
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